Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have come out swinging on the need for a national face mask mandate, desperately needed as the CoronaVirus Pandemi spreads wildly, and with the flu season on the horizon.
If only Donald Trump and Mike Pence had promoted this, the number of deaths, nearing 170,000, would have been far less, possibly half or two thirds lower.
Instead, Trump and Pence have encouraged aggression and violence by their nutty supporters, and have endangered our nation, which has, by far, the highest number of deaths and cases, due to their negligence.
If we are the greatest nation in the world, this should not be happening, but sadly, Donald Trump has no concern for the loss of life, and neither does the hypocritical, supposedly Pro Life, Mike Pence!
It is estimated that at least 40,000 future deaths between now and Election Day could be saved, if only what Biden and Harris call for, was done by Donald Trump.
But he has no regard for the losses of so many Americans, so when Biden comes into office, we will impose a national policy with penalties for those who refuse to obey.
And some people who say this is Marxism, are demonstrating how clueless, ignorant, and purely dumb they are, and need to study up on political philosophies and history, as they need to be educated on true authoritarianism, the constant threat of Donald Trump in office!
Government can impose requirements for public safety, and face masks are now such a requirement that needs to be mandated !
So, Professor, if, as You say, “Government can impose requirements for public safety, and face masks are now such a requirement that needs to be mandated !”, then i have only one question:
How is that mandate going to be enforced, and by Whom? The same people who are going to take away all those guns when a National Gun Control and Seizure Edict is similarly mandated? Those coming after the Maskless may very well find themselves also confronting not the Gunless, but folks who have read and believe [and believe in] the Second Amendment.
The only way a National Mask Mandate [like a National Gun Mandate] could, would, or ever will be enforced would be via martial law. Wouldn’t it be interesting if the election happens [and i pay off on The Bet], Biden wins, Trump leaves office, and the first thing POTUS Maxximmuss XLVI does is declare exactly that? Howz that for some alt-Fantasy History? Or is it?
You continued: “But [Trump] has no regard for the losses of so many Americans, so when Biden comes into office, we will impose a national policy with penalties for those who refuse to obey.”
First of all, who is this “we” that impose that policy? But more importantly: What sort of penalties? re-Education Camps? Cut off all government entitlement payments? Sterilization? Imprisonment thereby vastly increasing the chances of getting C-19? Execution by firing squad? You continued:
“And some people who say this is Marxism, are demonstrating how clueless, ignorant, and purely dumb they are, and need to study up on political philosophies and history, as they need to be educated on true authoritarianism, the constant threat of Donald Trump in office!”
Those people who are calling this “Marxism” will probably be meaning Marxism as it has been manifest and practiced throughout its history in the form of Leninist-Stalinist-Maoist-Pol Potist “Communism,” and/or Socialism in the Mussolini and Hitler models of National Socialism, or “Fascism.” Or they are saying that because “Marxism” stands, before all else, for any other form of government tyranny that is not beneficial to them, their livelihoods, life styles, and lives.
In either case ~ and given the history of the 20th century ~ how is calling a Mask Mandate “Marxism” not demonstrating and validly using a knowledge and understanding of the concept, term, and practice of “authoritarianism”? Of what it is, how it has worked in the past, and continues to work today?
Or perhaps You are referring to a different manifestation and implementation of “Marxism” in the Real World impacting the lives of real Human Beings in the last century.
Here’s a very simple question: Would the declaration a National Mask Mandate ~ with or without a declaration of martial law ~ and its attempted enforcement constitute an act of “authoritarianism,” as You ~ a professional historian and professor of History, “progressive” or otherwise ~ define it? And if not, why not?
Thinking about it, i do have a second question. What is the basis of Your claims that:
1. “If only Donald Trump and Mike Pence had promoted [a National Mask Mandate] the number of deaths, nearing 170,000, would have been far less, possibly half or two thirds lower.”
2. “It is estimated that at least 40,000 future deaths between now and Election Day could be saved, if only what Biden and Harris call for, was done by Donald Trump.”
What are the formal, peer-reviewed, journaled scientific studies that You used to make these assertions?
Or did You get them from someplace else?
Jeffrey, I can see you have no concern about the massive loss of life, and sound like a resister to wearing masks.
In other nations, which are democracies, the death toll and number of cases is so much lower by people showing responsibility and patriotism, the concept of shared sacrifice.
If we do not take responsibility for our fellow Americans, then the toll from COVID-19 will reach millions, and weaken our nation without any end.
Masks save lives. Wear one.
Professor – Guarantee you he’s an anti-vaxxer too.
The rest of us second that, Former Republican.
Postal service warns nearly every state it may not be able to deliver ballots in time based on current election rules.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/14/politics/usps-warn-states-mail-in-ballot-delivery/index.html
Advice: Make a plan to vote as early as possible, using whatever option works best for you. Your plan could be to request a ballot right away (you can do so NOW!) and return it by mail or a local drop box. Your plan could be to vote early in-person and mark the date on your calendar.
Thanks for that advice, Pragmatic.
Don’t bet Your next C-19 Relief Check on that, Rustbelt.
But then, in a universe where all people who question Mama Harris’ electability are not only “racists” and “sexists,” but “anti-vaxxers,” as well, i can see how You might be tempted to do that.
After all, EVERYBODY who is a “woke,” card carrying charter member of the “PC cancel culture” knows that.
The question under consideration here, Former Republican, is not whether “masks save lives.” i’d ask You the same question i ask the Professor about his sources on his assertions, but won’t waste either my or Your time.
The question is How does Mr Biden plan to enforce his National Face Mask Mandate, and Who is going to do it for him? Especially in those areas that have no use for Federal Mandates about anything, whether they come from Trump, Biden, or any other Dictator Wannabe, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, sex, sexual preference, or political party affiliation.
And many, if not most of those folks understand that the Second Amendment means exactly what it says.
RF: “Jeffrey, I can see you have no concern about the massive loss of life, and sound like a resister to wearing masks.”
And once again, Ronald, we see the professional historian and professor of American history completely ignore the simple, standard question about his sources for his assertions with his use of that favorite tool of all Americans, regardless of political persuasion, but particularly among the elite of the “woke” progressive Social Justice Warrior academician class: the good old ad hominem attack.
And, sorry to disappoint You, Doc, but i am not a “resister to wearing masks.” When i go into a store, office, library, taxi, private vehicle or residence, or any place else that requires [or even merely requests] donning a mask before entering, i don a mask. And if i’m not wearing a mask, i do my best to stay 6-to-10 feet away from any other Humans with whom i may come into physical contact. And if i can’t do that, i put my mask on. So, wrong again.
What i am a resister to ~ first and foremost of all ~ is the Federal government mandating anything about just about anything on a nationwide, one-size-fits-all, no questions asked, obey or pay a fine/go to jail basis. But i especially resist the proposed Federally-dictated wearing of face masks as a way of dealing with the C-19 Event.
And one of the primary reasons that i am against it is exactly as i explained to You, and that You ignored completely: Because such a Mandate ~ especially on masks, and especially after all the chaos, controversy, and confusion that has gone on regarding whether masks help or hurt [How many times have the WHO and the CDC ~ and even Trump ~ changed their positions on masks? Remember when Dr Fauci specifically advised Against wearing masks?] ~ such a Federal Mandate is totally and completely unenforceable, and any attempt to enforce it will only throw gasoline on an already smoldering dung heap fire. Which may, in fact, be the whole idea and motive behind a national face mask mandate in the first place; but that’s another rant. You continued:
“In other nations, which are democracies, the death toll and number of cases is so much lower by people showing responsibility and patriotism, the concept of shared sacrifice.”
i know i’m probably wasting my time by asking this question, but which “democratic” nations have per capita ~ and not total ~ but PER CAPITA death tolls and case numbers “so much lower” than America’s? i will assume that You see the “numeracy” significance of this question and how it relates to Your assertion; which is also probably exactly why You likely won’t answer it. You concluded:
“If we do not take responsibility for our fellow Americans, then the toll from COVID-19 will reach millions, and weaken our nation without any end.”
And who exactly is this “we” that needs to “take responsibility for our fellow Americans” with “patriotism” and the “concept of shared sacrifice”? Which fellow Americans are “we” responsible for: Each, Every, and All of “them”? Or just those “we” designate among the to-be-saved? And how responsible for “them” are “we”? For everything “they” may need, want, and desire? Or just the things that “we” determine that “they” really need and should want, desire, and have? And, finally, are all those folks equally responsible for every other fellow American?
It sounds basically like Everybody is responsible for Everybody Else, it would seem, but Themselves.
That’s an interesting concept as to how a civilization and its component civil society, economy, and especially, government and governance should work, and no doubt would work if only the Right People were placed in charge of everything and given total authority and power to do what They ~ in their infinite wisdom and intent to “do the most good for the most people” ~ deem and determine to be exactly “What Needs To Be Done!!! Now!!!”
Does “From each according to his ability; to each his needs” ring a bell? Kinda catchy, eh? Almost has a sort of Marxian hum and resonance to it, i’d say; wouldn’t You?
###
The Professor gets his data from the news sources he has listed on his blog.
The latest is 200,000 deaths by Labor Day.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa/u-s-could-reach-200000-coronavirus-deaths-in-september-expert-says-idUSKBN23I06D
Our country needs to ramp up testing and contact tracing, have strict social distancing and have widespread use of masks.
How to fight back against Trump’s destruction of the Post Office
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/15/1969502/-How-to-fight-back-against-Trump-s-destruction-of-the-Post-Office
Really, Rational Lefty? And what sources are those? Can You show me some recent articles where Dr Feinman has provided a source for any of his assertions that, were he writing it, for example, for the History News Network, he would have referenced as a matter of professional practice?
And i didn’t ask about somebody’s latest prediction on “Deaths by Labor Day.” i asked for the sources on his two claims that:
1. “If only Donald Trump and Mike Pence had promoted [a National Mask Mandate] the number of deaths, nearing 170,000, would have been far less, possibly half or two thirds lower.â€
“Possibly” 1/2 to 2/3, eh? That’s quite an impressive range of numbers. What peer-reviewed scientific study is it based on? And,
2. “It is estimated that at least 40,000 future deaths between now and Election Day could be saved, if only what Biden and Harris call for, was done by Donald Trump.â€
Estimated by whom and on what basis? And if done by Trump when: back in February when the first American C-19 Death was reported?
And was it 40,000 lives that maybe, might, woulda, coulda, shoulda been saved “if only…”? Or was it 80,000? Or only 20,000?
Throwing numbers around is all well and good if they are accurate and valid; that’s why the normal practice in argumentative discourse is to provide the sources of those numbers so as to justify using them to make one’s case.
The Reuters article in her post is one of the most recent news articles telling the latest data about the deaths projected.
Exactly, Former Republican. The current deaths in the US is 168,903 and continuing to grow each day. The Professor is not lying about the numbers he has mentioned.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases/
Projections about deaths and how many lives can be saved by wearing masks, social distancing, etc. comes from models by University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, Johns Hopkins, etc.
This is the IHME model: https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
The news media reports this information frequently.
Thanks for that, Southern Liberal.
Nobody said the Professor was “lying” about the numbers he presented, Rational Lefty; the question was and still is, Where did he get them?
And again, yet, and still: Nobody except You folks is talking about Total Deaths and Total Projected Deaths. The Professor wasn’t and i’m not.
The numbers under question have to do with how many lives are claimed to would have been saved if Trump had ordered a National Face Mask Mandate at some undetermined time in the past 5 to 5 1/2 months, as Biden/Harris did on Thursday.
It’s really not all that complicated.
Southern Liberal answered your question. Her post tells you where he gets his information from.
Heh. Well It’s a damn shame The Professor couldn’t deign to pass that info on himself, eh? Would have saved me the time i wasted asking for a couple of very simple answers to a couple of very simple questions.
But, and in any event, Thank You, Southern Liberal. i look forward to reading the premises and processes by which these estimated projections are made. And to seeing if anybody else has made similar projections, and how they compare to the IMHE’s.
One thing that caught my attention immediately was Item 8 of the Introduction that reads: “Lack of data sharing by the US government hampers our research: Our understanding of the drivers of the pandemic beyond mask use, mobility, testing, and seasonality is hampered by the lack of access to data. US CDC has many relevant datasets on the pandemic that they have refused to share with the research community. The switch of data reporting from US CDC to the US HHS has had little impact on our models since neither group is sharing much of their data with the research community. Some data that are critical to monitoring the response to the pandemic, such as mask use, are only collected through private-sector initiatives such as surveys conducted by Facebook, Premise, and SurveyMonkey. Federal government efforts to fill these critical data gaps have been limited to date.”
One has to wonder exactly Why all that data held first by the US CDC and now the US HHS is not available to the research community; why it is closely held, classified government data and information. And what the Congress has done about all that before going on Summer Break.
One also has to wonder what the impact of that collection of forbidden Facts would be on the Projection results that IMHE gets running its models without those Facts.
And finally, one has to further wonder about what other Secrets about this whole COVID-19 Event are being kept by the US government, and probably virtually every other government on the Planet.
Trump made the data switch from the CDC to a private company to make him look better.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/31/1965382/-Changing-COVID-19-data-collection-from-CDC-to-private-company-was-every-bit-as-corrupt-as-it-seemed
Trump is trying to ruin government agencies. Yet another reason we need to get rid of him!
The rest of us second that, Rational Lefty!
Trump is leaving behind a lot of mess to clean up.
If Trump gets reelected, I’m going to stop listening to the news and stop reading blogs, as I can’t put up with his mess any longer!